Recently Gustavo Reveles (reporter at the El Paso Times) and I got into a ginormous fight on Facebook. The premise of our fight was I think the El Paso Times did a disservice to the El Paso Community for advocating against health care coverage for same sex couples and Gustavo think the paper is award winning and does great things for the community. Seeing as I just learned that Gustavo quit the El Paso Times (after 13 years) to take the public info officer job at Canutillo Independent School District, I felt compelled to memorialize our fight. Also, Gustavo possibly was negotiating his future job as he defended his paper and his "family" there.
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Gustavo RevelesI wonder if I can get away with telling people to stop patronizing a specific media outlet ... nah, that's too petty. And in this world of shrinking media, the last thing we need is less media. Of course, that's the type of reasoning real media people would come up with.
November 2 at 10:19am
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loyd Johnson :-O
November 2 at 10:25am
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Lisa Degliantoni We need less BAD media Gustavo, and the El Paso Times does a disservice to this community by sucking as hard as it does. Real media people hold their news outlets accountable.
November 2 at 10:26am · 1 personLoading...
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Lorena La Morena Martinez I agree Gustavo ..telling people to stop patronizing The Huffington Post and MSNBC would be very petty of me. haha
November 2 at 10:29am
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Mari Matumbe Wow.
November 2 at 10:46am
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Gustavo Reveles Lisa, have you heard your show lately? It's not the essence of excellence. If we're going to start pulling the plug on bad media outlets, let's start lining up then.
November 2 at 11:01am · 1 personLoading...
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Lisa Degliantoni Just because the El Paso Times is our only daily paper doesn't mean people should just shut up and read it and accept that it's bad. Fortunately for talk radio fans, there are tons of choices and if they don't like my show they at least have a choice. If only fans of printed media were so lucky.
November 2 at 11:02am
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Lisa Degliantoni And Gustavo it's not YOUR paper. It's my radio show, so if it sucks it's my fault, I take it personally. You shouldn't take it personally that your paper sucks, you have very little to do with the direction that paper takes.
November 2 at 11:03am · 1 personPink Rivera likes this.
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Lisa Degliantoni In fact this would make for great radio, would you be allowed to do an interview on this very topic?
November 2 at 11:09am
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Gustavo RevelesI'm not arguing against anybody's anger about the position the paper takes. As a gay man, I am especially upset about its position on the city's same-sex benefits ordinance. I get it. It sucks. I've been critical of the editorial board in t...he past. You guys even wrote about it in NPT.
BUT that's not what you said. You said the paper sucks. And you know, there's a lot of good journos that work there. A LOT. And we do good work. I know you think we buy our awards, but I don't think you understand the way APME works. Just like any contest Entravision enters, there is an entry fee. Even the Pulitzers have an entry fee. So that APME Newspaper of the Year award was given on merit. WE worked our asses off.
As far as a second newspaper in this city ... well, outside of NYC and Washington, what other cities have two English language dailies. Not many. As a matter of fact, El Paso was the last Texas city to do so. I'd love to have the Herald Post back, but that's not going to happen. Certainly not if there's people arguing that circulations should be cut.
Lisa, you take every shot you can at the paper, and that's valid. You have a right to your opinion. But when you start calling out the entire product, I take offense because I have colleagues, friends and people that I consider family working there.
Keep on reading the NYT and the DMN. I know I do. But let's be realistic. If you want to know what's going on in El Paso, no one (NO ONE) comes close to us. That's what we do. We do local.See More
November 2 at 11:13am · 4 peopleGabriel Martinez, Josh Sanchez and 2 others like this.
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Josh Sanchez GUSTAVO 2012!!!!!
November 2 at 11:21am
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Lisa Degliantoni My heart goes out to any journalist who wants to work in a market like this with so few options for a job, but quality should be #1 always, and I have a hard time with the quality of the EPTimes, the bizarre NON-LOCAL approach it takes on the opinion pages and the lack of innovation. I don't directly blame you or anyone on your level there as I know this LOCAL paper is run out of some rich guy's office in Colorado who's probably been to El Paso once.
November 2 at 11:23am
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Derek Najera Is this the rhetorical device called "begging the question"...?
November 2 at 11:25am
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Gustavo RevelesCome on Lisa! Where are YOUR bosses? Last I checked, Entravision wasn't headquartered in El Paso.
And where is the call to action for quality on YOUR station? Are you telling me that the stuff that KHRO and KINT do are above reproach? That ...the work they're producing is of the highest quality?
I choose to work in El Paso. I believe in this town. I venture to say there are few people that love El Paso as much as I do. I know that's the case for dozens of people at the El Paso Times. We care about this community and we are trying to do the best journalism possible with the resources available.
You don't like the quality? Well, I ask you to take a look at the depth of coverage we have and point to anyone else that even comes close. I'm talking about comprehensive coverage. We own local coverage of state issues, we own local coverage of city issues. We own breaking news, too, and we dominate education coverage (no one else even does it). We are the only mainstream medium to even cover the arts and provide reviews of concerts and other events.
I could say many things about each and every one of the media outlets in El Paso. I chose not to, though, because I understand the limitations and the constraints that our local journalists work under.
Can the quality of our products be improved? Definitely. But before we start bashing other media, we should look at our own dirty laundry and get that spin cycle going.See More
November 2 at 11:34am
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Leonard Martinez Start with your chonies, Gustavo! :-P
November 2 at 11:36am
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Lisa DegliantoniYou have more resources than other media outlet in town from staff to space to phone lines to a printing press in your building. you never get to moan over a lack of resources at your job. And this argument is not about anything other than ...the El Paso Times is a terrible newspaper, ASME awards and all. It's not about loving El Paso or where your bosses are. I am happy you are employed as a journalist, i know dozens of people who aren't. Enjoy your print media job while you have it and get ready to be flexible when the market takes it away.See More
November 2 at 11:40am
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Gustavo RevelesOh, hold on. So before I made my point it mattered where my bosses were and whether or not we "bought" our awards, but now it doesn't?
If you think we have unlimited resources, Lisa, you are terribly mistaken. Again, you show your misunders...tanding of how the paper operates. The reason the NYT, the DMN, the LAT and all those other wonderful newspapers you read instead of the Times are of high quality is because they have larger resources ... much larger than ours. That's how it works.
Lisa, bottom line is you have your opinion and I can do nothing but respect it however misguided it is.
What I do know is that I work with talented journalists that do a good job given the limited resources we have. I know that our editorial board takes stances that not all of the city (including myself) agrees on. That doesn't mean, though, that the reporters and editors are bad journalists.
I'm thankful to have a job in journalism. And we may die soon, sure. But I'm not writing the obit just yet. After all, people have been saying radio is dead for much longer, yet you still have a job. Right?See More
November 2 at 11:49am · 1 personLoading...
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Josh Sanchez Lisa, why do you dislike the EP Times?
November 2 at 11:55am
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Lisa Degliantoni My wall is also participating in this conversation and we don't have mutual friends, chime in if you are willing. Can you do this on the radio?
November 2 at 11:58am
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Cynthia Vasquez Cordero You GO GUS!!!!
November 2 at 11:59am
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Josh Sanchez Lisa, why do you dislike the EP Times?
November 2 at 12:00pm
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Gustavo Reveles Lisa, I can't today no. It's election day so I have to work all day. Plus, I would need to clear this with my bosses.
November 2 at 12:00pm
50 of 71
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Derek Najera For all the slack that the Times gets (it's written for a fourth grade level, poor editing, etc etc), I have always enjoyed combing through it and reading the special features. Also, the sports writing, in my opinion, is pretty top notch, ...and I think that for what it is, a print source in a medium-sized market in which English isn't perhaps the primary niche, it does a pretty damn good job in providing comprehensive coverage of the area...not just the "sexy" issues like crime, corruption and scandals, but also of everyday issues such as education, health and events.
I really enjoy the reviews that Doug Pullens writes, and he delves into stuff that isn't even the most mainstream for this place. Also, the Austin Bureau does a great job of providing the best coverage possible on state politics affecting El Paso...and it's not just because I know the current reporter from high school. Brandi Grissom also did just as excellent a job.
I think the EP Times has really come a long way in evolving itself for the audience it serves (i.e. retirees who enjoy their cup of coffee in the morning with the paper, working people, homemakers). And, I say this as someone who isn't even the most El Paso friendly...I have a love-hate relationship with my hometown, where I currently live...but I sincerely enjoy the newspaper.See More
November 2 at 12:18pm
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Gustavo Reveles Derek you forgot to mention that the transportation writer is kinda sexy.
November 2 at 12:21pm
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Derek Najera LOL DEAD SEXY!!...
oh yeah, and almost all media outlets have conservative stakeholders...even the most touted "liberal" ones.
November 2 at 12:25pm
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Lisa Degliantoni @Gus find out if you can join me and we'll go at it on the air.
November 2 at 12:32pm
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Sito Negron I suck. I had something really good to add to this conversation and somehow it disappeared before I could post it. At least the Times knows how to publish a daily edition.
I'll just add this --sounds like a topic for the Press Club. What ca...n local media do to improve? Sometimes, it's just a reflection of its community.See More
November 2 at 12:40pm
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Gustavo Reveles Sito, thanks for providing thoughtful commentary. You are right, the Press Club should take this on.
As a matter of fact, NAHJ is planning a regional conference in March here in El Paso, I'll add this topic to the mix.
November 2 at 12:56pm via
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Jay Koester "you never get to moan over a lack of resources at your job." Of all the ridiculous things Lisa wrote, that may take the cake. The Times probably has the fewest reporters per capita of any city in the U.S.
November 2 at 4:30pm
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Lisa Degliantoni You have people that pull weight around you like editor and copy editor and fact checkers, sales managers, assignment editors, receptionists, entire pay roll departments. Or if your section is light you can throw in a few AP wire stories and not scramble to fill the space. You always do one job - report. Work at a start up for 15 minutes of your career and you will soon realize how huge of a an entity the El Paso Times is. There are media projects with 1/10 your staff that manage the keep quality high.
November 2 at 5:08pm
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Lisa Degliantoni You never have to scramble to get a good story or one more story because you can always fall back on a really local and important story like this $45 story, in your Top 10 Most Read section, http://www.elpasotimes.com/ci_16495526?source=mos...t_viewed
And falling back on crap news out of MTV corporate because that's what you think people like to read makes for a lazy paper or lazy editors. Period. Your paper is lazy and it's why barely 50% of El Paso reads it on a daily basis, you don't hustle to grab new readers with important news. AP stories of front pages of sections makes for a lazy, out of touch, crap paper. I'm out.See More
November 2 at 5:15pm
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Gustavo Reveles Lisa, please. What did you do in your magazine? There was a lazy product if there ever was one! No content to speak of, crap topics, driven by advertisers and -- worst of all -- published with a sense of importance that didn't match the pro...duct.
Now. Are you really going to blast the Times for using AP wire? Are you kidding me? Your own company uses wire services. Check with your newsroom before you make such dumb statements. How do you think they fill the newscast? Come on! Learn something about media production before you claim authority on the subject.
And for someone who hates the product, you sure use it a lot.
I AM OUT! I gotta go do some actual journalism and put a paper out tomorrow.See More
November 2 at 5:33pm
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Jay Koester Nah, I think I'll just keep working for APME's Texas Newspaper of the Year! I'm NOT out. I got a whole night ahead of award-winning election coverage to do. Peace!
November 2 at 5:39pm
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Leonard Martinez Hey, don't bring newscasts into this!
November 2 at 5:47pm
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Gustavo Reveles Nah Leonard, just pointing out that using wire is not something exclusive to the EP Times.
November 2 at 5:51pm
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Leonard Martinez i know. i was just kidding. btw, this thread has been great to read all day!
November 2 at 5:53pm
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Gustavo Reveles It's our goal here at the El Paso Times to keep you informed and entertained, Leonard.
November 2 at 5:54pm
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Pifas Silva 32 comments? Seriously?! This is facebook folks! We're just suppose to post about Lady Gaga, what we're eating for lunch and how cute our kids look (well, at least the breeders). BTW, as a former Times reporter, I agree with Gus: EPT leads the pack. Even when I was at number 1 rated ABC 7, we'd get pissed when they'd scoop us and sometimes we'd chase their stories the day after! Finally, transportation reporter is as HOT as Cristiano Ronaldo!
November 2 at 5:58pm
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Jay Koester Mmmm, just enjoyed some good Andre's Pizza courtesy of the El Paso Times ... I guess that's part of that unlimited budget Lisa was talking about.
And Pifas, after leaving the election night staff meeting, I was thinking much the same thing ...... the El Paso Times not only has the best staff, but also the hottest.See More
November 2 at 6:25pm
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Lisa Degliantoni Gus and Jay, I love that you are so loyal to your brand, that's a good sign. This has been the more funner thread than any other thread. I will go to my grave thinking the El Paso Times is the worst newspaper for a city this size in America and will always be a proud non-subscriber for as long as I call El Paso home. That's right, I said more funner.
November 2 at 7:38pm
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Lisa Degliantoni oh and Breaking News! The El Paso Times Stands Firm Against Gays, Civil Rights and Progress #elpaso http://ow.ly/33aff
November 2 at 7:39pm
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Gustavo Reveles Lisa does your company offers ay couples benefits? Cos mine does. That's way fun.
November 2 at 7:42pm via
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Jay Koester If I'm sorry for commenting at all, it's only because Gustavo has been KILLING it. All the way until the end. My lame comments aren't worthy of being in the same string.
But, Lisa, my original point was the Times also has the smallest staff ...for a city this size in America. But we're doing pretty darn good despite that.See More
November 2 at 9:06pm
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Kate Gannon Great discussion! Also brings to light the public's misunderstanding of the difference between a publication's editorial board stance and the independent work of the newsroom. Put together the criticism from people on both ends of the polit...ical spectrum and your newspaper is a right-wing communist facist socialist liberal war-mongering baby killing rag. Meanwhile the journos are trying to cover 700,000 stories, with specific examples, quantify and verify information while bloggers get to write whatever half-formed opinion tumbles out of their heads and call it fact.See More
November 3 at 11:22am
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Gustavo Reveles Or just say it on the radio, Kate.
November 3 at 12:19pm via
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Kate Gannon Well radio has its challenges too - there the problem stems from having to fill air time and keep listeners engaged without a lot of prep time. I'm not talking about the bigger operations that have staff to research info, but the community operations that are usually just individuals. Commercial operations have to drive audience in order to keep the lights on, so need to keep listeners fired up. These are strange times for all of us across many platforms. How do we begin to maintain speed, volume and quality in the digital era?
November 3 at 6:00pm
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Sito Negron Now that my bud Koester jumps in, I got to work with Lisa a bit here. Jay, whose major achievement in journalism has been to be the first "real media person" to call out a certain public figure. To use a DavidK device, Jay's thesis involved... a word that rhymes with "hazy." Oh yeah, Jay also learned from NPT how to aggregate the hell out of relevant and otherwise interesting stories ... :-)
I don't think the Times has the smallest staff for a city this size. Maybe. Likely, it has a staff commensurate with its circulation, which is probably small for a city this size. That in itself is a sad statement about the corporation's failure to go beyond the bean-counting and envision the Times what it ought to be, the flagship newspaper of the entire border, with a focus on our tri-state borderplex.
That "blue-sky visioning" aside, Gustavo is right when he claims the Times' dominance, but wrong on multiple counts when he asserts "ownership" of various coverage areas. The Times' dominance comes from its ubiquity, not from its quality. Whether or not the Times is understaffed for El Paso (and it certainly is understaffed for the size of the border metro), it is the largest newsroom in the city.
Yet still, it does not own breaking news. TV does a good job with that. Sure, the Times does a great job of picking up Diario leftovers, so it's often the first in English with Juarez breaking news. It does not own original coverage of Juarez -- KINT drinks your milkshake, and has for years. Even when I was at KTSM years ago we had a stringer from JZ who daily brought us great stuff. The Times HAS started to cover Juarez, which is a good thing. Once in a while the work yields a real gem, but the Times has failed to really put its opportunity to work. There might be legit security concerns regarding how to cover Juarez; if so, that in itself says a lot about where we live. And if that's the case, it represents a failure of resolve on the part of the editors in figuring out how to deal with the situation, which while we're strangely unaffected or affected in ways we don't yet fully grasp is literally life and death for people with whom we live.
As the ONLY news outlet with a full-time beat reporter on the city, you ought to own it. Same with the state beat, where you not only have a full-timer, but also a fire-jumper who can supplement that. Crowing about dominating a beat that you're the only one covering consistently is like being Mel Brooks in "To be or not to be"-- world-famous in Poland.
The No. 1 priority, aside from the bean-counting, is getting the paper out, which the Times does. It plays an important role in the community, as does any daily, providing a virtual center through which we all can meet. That's no small role, but it's mostly a function of its existence, not a function of its excellence in the marketplace.
That said, I wouldn't want it to go away. The biggest reason is the short-term pain it would cause the newsroom folks as well as the community. But I also wonder whether it wouldn't be long before a group of locals, or better yet, several competing groups, decided to start up a daily/dailies or some facsimile. Over time, one of them would evolve to be dominant.
But that's all theory, and in the meantime, it's better to have locals employed and producing than not. You guys are lucky to have decent jobs, and lucky to be part of a slight upward trajectory on the part of the paper. There is no question that in certain areas -- for example, music coverage, as you note -- the paper has responded either to competition or opportunity and loosened its grip on the staff a bit so people can spread their wings. I wonder if this conversation would even have happened three years ago, whether anyone in the newsroom would have bothered with a defense (although now that I think this through, probably you and Jay, media mavens that you are, wouldn't have passed on a fight even then).
Gus, I'm glad to see your fire on this issue. I meant what I wrote about going Press Club on this and doing some soul-searching and honest review about what we all can do to better serve the public.
Hopefully, Lisa gets in your heads and you spend an extra minute on the phone with a source, rewrite the lede one more time, dig in your heels with an editor when you know you're right about the story angle, read and watch what other folks did on the same story, go out after work and talk about the stories you did and the ones that got away and how to reel them in next time, all the things you'd do when someone's on your ass and you're trying to prove your stuff.See More
November 4 at 8:58am · 1 personLoading...
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Gustavo Reveles Sito I agree with much of what you say but disagree with loads more. Your assertion of Jay's contribution, for one. You were in his position when I first started in this business. I doubt you would say your job was to aggregate back then.
I...'m on my phone so I won't go into much detail. Suffice it to say that we own our beats because we are good not because we are just there, like you claim. I stand by most of the reporters, photographer and editors I work with. We are the only daily in town not by our own doing.
As for city hall, well there were other reporters there when I covered it and I stilled kicked ass.
Having said that, be assured that if I rewrite a lead or rethink a story, it won't be because Lisa is in my head. It's because I'm in it, and I expect better from myself.See More
November 4 at 9:11am via
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Sito Negron I was just messing with Jay. I'm sure I'll regret it. He rocks. Hell, when I was doing assignments, I think Al Gore had just invented the Internet. Aggregating was something they did to rocks over at the Slate Rock and Gravel Company (and also at Asarco).
November 4 at 9:23am
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Lisa Degliantoni I am going to do my part and continue to point out ludicrous articles by the ep times and their editorial board. El Paso doesn't like critics but I am going to be the certified critic of our daily paper. I appreciate your defense Gustavo and I did see Jay last night and tell him I don't hold him accountable for the entirety of the Times sucking but someone besides Larry Medina has to be vocal about the community's discontent with the el paso times and I will be that voice!
November 4 at 10:39am
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Lisa Degliantoni ps in honor of the San Francisco 49ers, I posted the 49th comment. Booooo yyyaaaahhhhh..
November 4 at 10:40am
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Gustavo Reveles Hey Lisa! I'm a journo. I live by accountability. No problem here being accountable. But what is ludicrous to you may be relevant to someone else.
And Lisa, shouldn't you look inside your own house? Why not fix the issues at Entravision t...oo? You never comment on those.See More
November 4 at 10:46am via
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Lisa Degliantoni This discussion is about the El Paso Times being a terrible daily newspaper. In the age of messy conversations based on ADD that cover every freaking topic on the planet, I am stick to ONE - The El Paso Times is a terrbile daily newspaper a...nd keeps our city DOWN by not being in touch with the people that live here as is evidenced by the less than 50% daily readership. If you want to debate other topics, start a new thread; El Paso Magazine sucked and it folded, The Lisa D Show is a crap talk radio show, Entravision Communications produces the worst nightly news in the Borderland. Go for it but none of those posts will generate 49 posts like this one!See More
November 4 at 10:51am
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Sito Negron Lisa, what if the Times DOES reflect El Paso?
Hey, way to stay on topic!
November 4 at 10:55am
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Jaime Abeytia All I ask is that the Times do something revolutionary and get the call letters and frequency right. I'll help, its KHRO, and its Talk Radio 1150.
November 4 at 10:58am
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Lisa Degliantoni Jaime your radio show sucks and you shouldn't even be on this thread.
November 4 at 11:05am
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Jaime Abeytia Good point. This is for real journalists. Time for me to talk about lisa's hair for an hour...
November 4 at 11:06am
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Lisa Degliantoni Sito, the Times DOES NOT reflect El Paso it reflects the 5 old men who are the editorial board and the less than 50% of the residents that read it. Spend 15 minutes reading the comments and or the letters to the editor and you will see who the Times represents. The first reader comment on Kathrin Berg Petit's retirement story - "That lady is a cougar." That's who reads the Times.
November 4 at 11:06am
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Lisa Degliantoni @Jaime my hair and Victor's HAT!!!!! Back to being a hack! If only i were a real journo like the rest of the smart people on this thread.
November 4 at 11:22am
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Sito Negron Lisa, I'm just raising the uncomfortable possibility that IT IS what El Paso is about. Five old men running the voice of an operation that is based out-of-town yet is supposed to represent the best of a half-literate community from which in...stead of investing its profits it's sending them back to the home office ... are we dangerously close to an analogy here?
That said, I forgot to mention earlier that as KINT drinks the Times' milkshake on Juarez, so to does KHRO and its team of bloggers and assorted misfits drink everyone's milkshake on local politics ... and hair reporting!See More
November 4 at 11:25am
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Lisa Degliantoni Sito that would make me jump off the cliff.
November 4 at 11:30am
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Jaime Abeytia Hey hold on. I'm the only blogger. That's not a team negron! Although we are mostly misfits...
November 4 at 11:32am
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Gustavo Reveles Lisa let me get this right. You're the crusader for good media but only when it doesn't apply to you or your company. I venture to say thy people like you keep his community down, not the Times. You come down here from SF and think you kno...w what's beat for us? Please?!? If your answer for moving ELP forward is your crappy show (for which you hardly ever bother to show up to host) then I guess we are doomed.
What we need are solutions, not just people with a delusional sense of worth to point out the problems.
I'm tired of fighting with you. It's not worth it. The Times I not the SF Chronocle, which I the paper you want to read. Well, El Paso I not SF, and I for one love that. See More
November 4 at 12:42pm
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Jay Koester Wow, this tread has turned people a bit vindictive and mean-spirited. I was about to join in and go all Tim Besco on some folks, but decided it was time to take a step back. Though I think Lisa and Sito aren't representing themselves well o...n this thread, I ran into Lisa last night and had a nice conversation, and I've known Sito long enough to know he's cool, too.
From the inside, I guess I'll never totally understand the hatred of the Times and its journalists. Some seem to have the impression we just sit around the newsroom smoking cigars and laughing about the pap were about to foist on an unsuspecting public.
But I look around and see a group of people working the best they can under some very difficult circumstances. I see journalists who have been successful elsewhere, but choose to be in El Paso, making things better. I see journalists looking over at the empty desk next to them, remembering their friend who got laid off. I see journalists afraid that they could be laid off next, and what that will mean for them and their families. And I see journalists working hard because of that fear, not because of worry about the disapproving looks from El Paso's self-appointed guardians of good journalism.
Of course, I also look up and see la amor de mi vida (No, not you, Gustavo), so consider me doubly biased about the greatness of our staff.
Having worked at various daily newspapers during my career, I know full well how small this staff is for a city this size, whether anybody wants to hear it or not. For fun, I did a quick Google search of Salt Lake City and found its metro area is pretty similar to El Paso. Meanwhile, a glance at their newsroom staff list shows that the Times staff is about one-third the size of the Tribune's. No doubt I could spend all day finding more examples. If Sito or anybody else can find me a city of El Paso's size with a smaller newspaper newsroom staff, I'll pay you $20 and declare it "Lisa D is great" day.
And finally, when Sito was mad at me about some damn thing a few years back, he blogged I was only known for one thing. I consider myself blessed that I've moved up to two things.See More
November 4 at 4:45pm
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Frank Javier Duran ... And now a word about copyright policies. *sigh. I don't have the energy ...
November 4 at 6:13pm
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Jaime Abeytia Orale, I'd love to have that conversation...I've had a lot of shit jacked from me and I'm not a legit journo!
November 4 at 6:16pm
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Lisa Degliantoni I think what's so great about this now 65 post conversation is that we are all very passionate about media & El Paso. Gus I moved here from Brooklyn 10 years ago, not SF, and have always felt that the daily paper here could be stronger. Whe...n the Times endorsed McCain and compared Obama to Hugo Chavez, it sealed the deal for me. Then last week the endorsement of family values made me furious. You and Jay and several others might be stars at what you do, but the Times as a whole does a disservice to this community by not elevating the conversation, ever, and it's the only daily so it has more of a responsibility than any other printed medium. Granted the Wall Street Journal's editorial board sometimes pisses me off but I can rely on the rest of the reporting to be smart, compelling and incredibly strong. Yet when I read some crap, backwater editorial from the Times, I find myself sifting through a see of even crappier AP wire stories about MTV VJs who screw their staff. I know you're not an editor so you can't be blamed for those decisions, but a paper cannot stand on one or two star reports AT ALL. It stands on it's editors and readership.See More
November 5 at 9:10am
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Jaime Abeytia Not that I think about it, I specifically put a copyright notice on my blog that is routinely ignored, especially by certain political opinion writers. Perhaps I should send an email making that point that substantial parts of the column ar...e similar to my blog posts and should be removed immediately.
I haven't really said much in this particular conversation, but I think one thing that is absent in this column is the very real problems that occur internally at the Times as it relates to relationships with certain high profile figures, questionable moves by management that clearly freak out staff at the Times, firings, forced resignations, people taken off beats or told not to write about someone and then they do, and then they cover it up, etc. I think that is an important part of this discussion that could lead people to believe that there are areas that could be improved upon at the Times and has be conspicuously absent in this thread.
That being said, Jay is a cool vato considering he thinks Taco Bell is his favorite Mexican restaurant and Tavo is from the hood and a Redskins fan, so he's chingon in my book.See More
November 5 at 9:36am
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Gustavo Reveles Sigh.
Lisa, I get that you're upset about the editorial board. Believe me, so am I. The McCain endorsement was embarrassing and, as a gay man, the endorsement last Sunday was disheartening. You were pissed. My friends were pissed. I was SUPE...R pissed. But that's a group of four or five people that make decisions about the OPINION page. It has nothing to do with the editorial staff that writes the news stories. In other words, the bulk of the paper.
If you don't think we elevate the conversation, I am going to have to disagree with you. Just off the top of my head, I can tell you that we have written intelligently about many issues in the community, when no one else has. For instance, our month-long series on poverty started conversations about solutions for our economic and educational problems. I am also very proud on my series on bilingual education and the conversations it created about the right approach to tackle this important challenge in El Paso. Just last night I wrote about the upcoming planning sessions that will shape how El Paso grows and is planned for the next 25 years. I can think of dozens of other relevant and intelligent stories other staffers have written just in the last 12 months.
Are you telling me these are not intelligent, engaging stories?
Yes, our online component runs stories about VJs sleeping with whomever. But guess what? That's news! Not the type of news I care about, but certainly someone does. Just because YOU don't think it's interesting/important/relevant, doesn't mean that someone else doesn't. If any news medium cater to the likes of just one person ... well, they're screwed.
I know you told Jay at Hope that when you call the paper terrible, that it's nothing personal. But how else can I take it? You're talking about the work I do every day. The work that I have done of the last 13 years. You're also talking about my family. It would be easy for me to criticize the other media in town and point out their faults and how they're keeping El Paso down. But I don't do it because I realize the limitations under which we work. I know how thinly we are spread. I understand how newsrooms work.
Having said that, I can tell you that I am proud of the work the journalist at the Times do day and day out. I don't think many here in El Paso could do it. That includes you.
And Jaime, you're a cool vato and I always stick by a Redskins fan (God knows someone has to 'cos it's hard to be one). But I think your copyright issue is different. The issue yesterday was an outright copy and paste job of a story our "crappy" journalists did. What you claim happens with your stories when they're "stolen" is they read your info and then they verify it and write their own story. I seriously doubt our reporters do that. But hey, the paper is read over the radio waves every morning. Right?See More
November 5 at 11:13am
o
Jay Koester The editorial: Back when folks were angry about the McCain endorsement, much of the argument seemed to be, "How could the Times do that in Democratic El Paso? The Times doesn't reflect El Paso! It's not right!" Well, like it or not, this t...ime the endorsement reflected El Paso. So why is it not OK this time?
Or is the real issue that the opinion page isn't allowed to write anything that disagrees with Lisa D's outlook on life?
Even from inside the Times, I was able to somehow find the fortitude to read our editorial, then vote against the proposition anyway. In fact, I can't say the editorial made me respect the Times any less.
It's really not that difficult of a concept once you realize people are allowed to have opinions that differ from your own.See More
November 5 at 3:28pm
o
Lisa Degliantoni @Gus you cannot genuinely believe that you are part of an elite group of very talented journos (of which there aren't many in El Paso, including me) who pull off the masterful reporting day in and day out. At this point you are being snark...y, petty and Sicilian. There are tons of talented writers, editors and journalists who graduate from El Paso High Schools every year and they leave to work at better papers. Or they come home after college and are forced to work at PIOs because the 7 reporting jobs at the El Paso Times have been held onto by somebody like you for 13 years and there's no room for new people. If you love El Paso so much why don't you step aside and let some young kid have your job and start your own paper, maybe you could go to print with I'm Doing El Paso, it could look just like El Paso Magazine! With pretty photos and pretty fluff, I am sure you could handle closing 100+ pages of a monthly magazine, you're talented enough.See More
November 7 at 5:32pm
o
Gustavo Reveles Oh please, I would find offense in that if it came from someone with real media credentials behind her. But it comes from you, so I just take ut ad face value.
You don't like my reporting? Get in line. I piss people off with it all the time.... But at the end of the day I am comforted by the knowledge that my work has changed policies, helped tax entities reduce waste, brought national and international attention to issues affecting our students and set the pace for public entities to fire people who were abusing their power.
All that, and I'm just one 'em talentless hacks working in this city. Damn. Meanwhile, you and your gaggle of 'hip' and young writers do nothing to prove yourselves. You feel entitled to a job just because you left and came back and you can put a sentence together. Well, fuck that.
Lisa, I'm not going to change your mind and you're not going to change mine. You think I'm a hack working for a subpar paper and I think you're a talentless snob who thinks she can save the poor people of El Paso.
Let's just leave it at that.
